The subject of online education is one that tends to prompt
a lot of response. I recently read an
article from Inside Higher Ed, entitled “Formerly Known as Students”. This article looked at the impact of massive
open online classes (also known as “MOOC”s), and questioned as to whether the
people registered in these courses could really be labeled as “students”.
MOOCs provide the opportunity for a number of students to participate
in courses that may otherwise be unavailable to them, but one has to wonder if
they are getting the same education from the experience as would a student in a
more personable setting. With student to
faculty ratios sometimes nearing 150,000:1 (Byerly, 2012), it is difficult to
say whether the professor may ever have the time to respond to student
questions or form any sort of relationship.
Even if a professor responded to only one percent of the students in his
course, he would still be taking on over 1,000 students in some cases.
The article discusses whether or not the people taking these
courses should be labeled as “students”, or if it would be more appropriate to
deem them “online learners” or even “registrants”. While this focus on terminology may seem
petty, it has been argued that the term “student” implies a certain amount of
responsibility on the part of the professor (Byerly, 2012), which may not be
enacted in such a broad classroom setting.
If a student were to ask a question, seek advice, or request a letter of
recommendation, is it even possible for the professor to respond to the student’s
needs?
This is not saying that the student wouldn’t receive any
feedback at all. In the article, the
students were provided instantaneous response through automated test grading, and
were sometimes offered the option of online discussions lead by alumni
volunteers or graduate students. If the
online learners are gaining as much from a course as they otherwise would in
the classroom, then who are we to say that they are not technically “students”?
And how do you measure how much one student gets out of a class in comparison
to their online counterpart? Is it
elitist to say that a student enrolled in an online course is less of a “real
student”, or is there something fundamentally missing when enrolled in one of
these MOOCs?
What do you think? Is
someone who is taking a course still considered a student if the professor is
unable to invest a certain degree of time and effort into her success and
progress? Should an online student be
considered comparable to a traditional student?
What, if anything, “distinguishes a course from a set of lectures”
(Byerly, 2012)?
Byerly, A. (2012).
Formerly known as students. Inside Higher Ed. Retrieved from
These are questions that I have debated a lot. Part of me feels that online students are still putting in a significant amount of work as they complete homework assignments, write papers, and take tests. Furthermore, some online classes do have professors that work with students and answer their questions. On the other hand, I feel like traditional students have to invest more time by sitting in class every week, participating in discussions, etc. This often comes up in another class of mine and someone pointed out that it doesn't feel fair that someone was able to get a doctorate degree when we have to spend time sitting in class and putting in more work.
ReplyDeleteI have mixed feelings about online, distance education. This seems to be the direction higher education is heading, but I'm not sure if this type of curriculum delivery method is what colleges and universities should be promoting. As student affairs professionals, we all know that a substantial amount of learning occurs outside of the confines of a classroom or even a computer screen. The idea of what a "student" is or should be is inconsequential compared with authentic academic engagement. It's difficult to determine how much is really being learned by these MOOC participants. The cynical part of me feels that this may simply be a marketing tool utilized by non-profit postsecondary institutions to compete with the highly lucrative for-profit educational industry. I can only hope that MOOCs are not a preview to online undergraduate degrees at non-profit colleges and universities.
ReplyDeleteI find the argument surrounding MOOCs vs. the traditional classroom intriguing. Is the purpose of a MOOC to provide the same experience? Do all students need to go through the same avenue of learning? I found this article interesting in that part of the article was not evaluating the content or effectiveness of the MOOC as it compares to the traditional classroom, but instead evaluating the students. Why is there an effort to create a class system for students. As a higher education administrator, a student is a student. A person who wants to learn in whatever capacity should be supported.
ReplyDeleteDoes the term “student” imply a certain amount of responsibility on the part of the professor? Is a student not a student if there is not a professor? I believe that this is a narrow way of thinking about learning. The traditional method of delivering learning through a professor's lecture to a classroom of students is evolving. Curriculum now may include an "outside of the classroom" component to supplement the learning in the classroom. Group work and learning from peers is common. Classrooms are incorporating different technology to accommodate various types of learners. Students are learning subject matter in capacities other than the classroom. All of these non-traditional experiences allow a student to learn as much, if not more than, experiences they would have in the classroom. It is elitist to say a self-guided learner (whether participating in MOOCs or not) is less of a student than a student in a traditional classroom setting.
As noted in our class, online learning is a concept which has already left the station. Educators who do not jump on board will be left behind. But I worry that we are only interested in this because we can make lots of money by charging lots of students tuition without having to provide classroom space, housing, insurance, or hiring that many teachers to educate them (see original posters comment about classes with 150,000 students).
ReplyDeleteI may be going out on a limb, but I think online education is a fad and a fraud that will eventually either go away entirely or will be radically reshaped by its failure to educate in a meaningful way.
In a classroom, you are thrown together with a bunch of people who have different values and opinions. You will have the opportunity to share and discuss and challenge each other both during and after class. Even if it's a large class, you can still meet up with classmates afterwards and share and discuss. Some of the most valuable discussions I've had in this program have occurred after class, talking with classmates about course materials. These discussions can happen randomly throughout the week as I bump into classmates on my way to lunch or other offices, or on the train to and from work. Obviously this doesn't happen if you're sitting in your living room in your pajamas taking a class. Even if you make friends with your online classmates, you will most likely pick and chose which ones you associate with, and will most likely pick the ones who most closely mirror your own opinions and values. This happens in real life as well, but in a class of 150,000, you are much more able to select a narrower set of viewpoints than in a class of 30.
Finally, there's classroom experience. I am currently teaching a class on American culture to foreign graduate students. Last week, we carved jack-o-lanterns as part of a class on American holidays. Can you replicate that in the online environment? I didn't think so.
To not call online learners "students" greatly undermines what these individuals are trying to accomplish. Although online education does not provide the co-curricular and holistic experience most of us are used to, it certainly does not detract from what these students are learning, and what the teachers are providing. Online education is a great option for many students -- for example, for military personnel who would like to earn a degree (whether bachelors or an advanced degree) while abroad, for single mothers, or for individuals in rural areas who do not have access to a larger institution. Online education is also a great option for adults who wish to pursue a second professional degree. There is no substitute for an on-campus collegiate experience -- especially at the undergraduate level. However, it is a privilege to be able to obtain such an experience, and it is unfair to discount what so many online students are accomplishing through their hard work on line. So sure, perhaps online teachers cannot provide a stellar recommendation for the student -- but that is not what defines a teacher and a students role. I personally find it insulting to say that an online learner is not a student, because just because it may not fit into our old schemas of what a student is. Online education is turning out hard working, talented, and dedicated professionals. Our world is changing, and it is fairly naive of anyone to not afford dedicated and devoted students the privilege of being called a "student."
ReplyDeleteI do believe that it is absolutely possible to learn anything without a professor’s help – it all depends on one’s strong desire to learn. However, when it comes to defining the notion “student” I can’t but agree with the fact, that “student” presupposes not only the process of learning, but also the process of teaching, the latter definitely including some sort of interaction. Thus, I consider people involved into massive open online classes to be more online learners, than students. Perhaps it is kind of elitist definition, but at the same time what would we have professors and school for if we could just learn anything online without any sort of communication with teachers? There is nothing better and more effective in the mutual process of teaching-learning than communication between both parties – that is what classrooms were initially created for.
ReplyDeleteRaquel Anderson
I think that this article and Jesse's comments are very interesting. I feel higher education views this "in class experience" very highly. But if we look at other sectors, there is high value being placed on technology, online interactions, and distance learning. Many companies and institutions are now presenting their professional development, tutorials and even meetings online. Does this mean that these organizations are not effective? Can one not learn or communicate effectively online?
ReplyDeleteAs an advisor, I hear from many students that they sit in a lecture hall full of hundreds of students and do not interact with anyone, let alone the instructor. At many institutions, courses are not even been taught by faculty, but rather by graduate students. Are these students "learning"? We cannot assume that students in online education programs are not learning, just as we cannot assume that students in classroom are learning.
This subject is tough because a lot of the criticism is placed on the seemingly aloof professor and respective departments offering online courses. I would venture to state that is student learning is taking place then the online classroom platforms are definitely valid. On the other hand, learning might not be occuring at an equal level and the assessment standard may not be reflective of actual student achievement. Cheating may occur at higher rates, students could be equally skilled but not doing the readings or other assignments etc.,
ReplyDeleteDoes that mean online classes should be shut down compltely? I'm not sure yet. I think that organizations and employers will always value the traditional in person program of study because they are guaranteed a person with a certain level of commitment to the profession. Proficiency is expected and verified through the experience of devoting years to solely studying. Regardless, student affairs professionals must confirm and at the very least ready themselves for functioning at the virtual level just as successfully as with traditional on campus students.
-Juana Escobar
Christa,
ReplyDeleteYou raise some great questions as we think about the effects of online education. The biggest question for me is whether or not these individuals are truly learning, to the same extent as those students who are in class. It is hard to gage and evaluate the quality of learning for these online students, but at the same time we have also seen that in class students can certainly go through the motions of college and not necessarily learn, develop, or retain anything from their education. It is so sad to see that there are a large number of individuals who enroll in these classes without the teacher contact and rapport that one might gain when they are engaged inside of the classroom. Evaluating the quality of learning is difficult in this case, but if these individuals are truly learning, they are definitely students. However, regardless of whether these individuals are students or not, ensuring a quality education through online classes is the larager issue.
For me, how value of the online course depends on individuals. It is hard to measure how valuable of the online prgram. I think the most important thing is to focus on what students got from the program, both traditional setting and online program. Do they learn the skills to apply to their work? Do they learn what they really want to get? Do they achieve their goals? I think online course is just another option to get educated. How worthy is to depends on the individual needs.
ReplyDeleteI agree with a lot of the comments you all have shared. Personally, from my own experiences and stories from friends, I have a bad taste in my mouth when it comes to online classes. From my experiences, at the end of online classes, individuals often feel like they have gone through the motions and not learned a thing. I think it is hard to make online classes much more than this, especially at the undergraduate level. With that said, I think online classes are valuable options for some students, and as Michelle said above, the quality of learning will ultimately depend on the individual. If someone is dedicated to learn and get something out of an online course, they will. If they see it as an easy means to a degree, then they will likely learn little. The challenge is to make online classes engaging, demanding, and worthwhile in themselves, not just means to some end -- I think we face these same challenges on traditional college campuses as well. While I think there is a marked difference between learning in traditional settings and learning that takes place online, I still think that students are students in both settings. This is a distinction that does not change the way students learn online or in the classroom. Instead of trying to dichotomize the two sets of students, our efforts are better invested in making learning in both realms valuable.
ReplyDeleteI am interested in seeing how online learners face in the workplace. If someone who earns an online degree secures a job and is able to deliver quality work, who is to say that their education is any less valid than those who learned in the classroom? If those who earn online degrees are not competitive in the workforce, then I believe the value of an online degree will decrease and more students will realize the benefits of attending class in person.
ReplyDeleteThank you for sharing this article. As we saw a few weeks ago when Dr. Jackson came and spoke to our class, online education is a hot topic issue. I think that there are many instances were online education is beneficial. Looking at BA programs that do not require hours or hands on learning for non-traditional students can be the key to greater success in that person's life. However, I think there are many other examples that make me question if a person is truly getting the same valued experience if they were to be in a classroom. For example, having a Master’s program for teaching or social work. There is important value in these two helping professions for learning inside the classroom, collaborating with co-workers, students, and teachers, and monitored student teaching and fieldwork hours. I wonder for someone like me who has an MA in teaching from a traditional program, how I far against someone who received their degree online?
ReplyDeleteErica Wasserman
Thank you Christa for blogging on this. Like Vivika mentioned, this has been a topic that has actually been discussed in one of our other classes, and one I have a difficult time trying to understand. I actually have mixed feelings about the whole "online" learning experience. Yes, I will admit that online learning is a great option for those individuals who do not have time to come to an actual campus. Many of these students have fulltime jobs, and live far away from potential campuses they would like to gain a degree from. However, it makes me wonder if they would be learning to the same degree as a student who actually goes to class. Throughout my program there has been great discussion on for profit institutions, and how a lot of their online classes diminish the true quality of learning, and charge students a ridiculous amount for tuition. So it brings me to the question, what is the true quality of learning here? What makes us different from for profits after all?
ReplyDelete-Rose R
I am glad Christa has shared this article about such a controversial topic (on distance learning). We all heard Dr. Michael Jackson’s presentation two weeks ago, when he was asked complex questions regarding the distance learning programs, that let to further debate. As a result the issues were not resolved during the presentation. I believe that it is still too early to know what the outcomes and results will be regarding this polemic topic. There are still many unanswered questions. For example, are students really getting quality education? Should the tuition for these students be the same as traditional students? It would be interesting to hear the student’s opinions on this subject? Finally, more research studies need to be done to access the effectiveness of distance learning programs
ReplyDeleteThere is the question of being able to build a rapport. There is a certain synergy that is created through collaboration and problem solving. Although-we as a class- received a taste of what may be the future of collaborations through "Voice Thread." I think the broader question is can a learning community be created on a MOOC platform. How are classes structured? Are assignments simply posted with due dates, or is the MOOC engaged in collaborative learning? I don't want to debate euphemisms on what to call certain individuals. Learning is life long and non-linear. Education, i.e., a semester long course, is finite and linear. Students on myriad platforms have varying outcomes due to many unique and singular reasons.
ReplyDeleteThis is an interesting topic. It's hard for me to consider a person enrolled in a MOOC course a true student if they do not have consistent and ongoing interaction with a professor. In my current position, I find many students who have to repeat courses taken in high school because the NCAA finds that the way the courses were administered were similar to MOOC's and are ultimately deemed non-traditional.
ReplyDeleteThere must to be some level of engagement for a student to have the "student experience." I would definitely argue that students seeking an online education are students, however,the situation with MOOC's is a bit different in that it leaves no room or possibility for engagemen. In fact, one could argue that the only reason this medium works (if you believe it does) is because it discourasges engagement. - DREA ELZY
ReplyDeleteThis post really brings up a lot of valid questions and also makes me think about our class discussion about online students (who are paying). I think that MOOCs are helping education move towards being a public good, but I don't know that I would necessarily consider them true students. I don't think that MOOC certificates will be considered valid forms of certification for various subjects nor will they be recognized as "degrees" by employers. I love what MOOCs are doing for education but I think that the lack of accountability, faculty interaction, and credibility behind some of the certificates points to the fact that these individuals are not "real" students.
ReplyDeleteIf we go back to the original purpose/goal of the American college in colonial America, it was to socialize a class of aristocracy that would govern the people fairly. The new American colleges introduced the country's future leaders to each other, and helped them build networks that would assist them later in life.
ReplyDeleteColleges today still fulfill that role, they still socialize people to be the leaders of tomorrow (both Obama and Romney have Harvard law degrees).
Are individuals in MOOC's students? They are learning, which would fulfill the definition of student. But are they learning enough to make them effective, happy individuals who can contribute to society in a meaningful way? I don't think so.
With such a broad environment, I think it may often lay on the student to determine if they want to actively play the role. I know many online students who frequent the campus, and who are heavily involved in student organizations. However, this may only work for online students who live close to campus, and so I'm not sure if this way of thinking is fair to students who live across the country.
ReplyDeleteI don't quite know what my stance is regarding online learning at this point. I feel there is still much to be realized about this relatively new platform. That being said, I think online learners should be called "students". Would we not call online instructors "professors"? I imagine there would be some significant upset if that term wasn't upheld. Though it is a different experience, I think they are still "students".
ReplyDelete